Storm Window Strategy - Help....

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jeepnstein
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Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:16 am
Location: Sciotoville, Ohio
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Re: Storm Window Strategy - Help....

Post by jeepnstein »

Verve wrote:Thanks everyone! Lots of information that helped us evaluate our situation. Sorry it took so long to reply, I was reading posts regularly on my phone but I'm not able to access the site regularly anymore from a computer so I can't post or reply as frequently as I'd like. Anyway, we decided to purchase a few of the storms on the alley side of our house since we haven't seen them in person. We wanted to give them a try and see how they perform on a few windows that don't get used as often incase we hate them or they're not up to our standards. We'll give them a try and then we can order more if we like them. We were afraid to spend to much on them without seeing them first. In the mean time we're going to try to finish two of our windows that are in the worst shape before winter sets in. If its a dry winter we can order more and get them installed anytime.
You're pretty smart to try a few first and see what you think. When you're ready to go all historically correct on that gorgeous place I think I have a .pdf lying about somewhere on how to make a wooden storm.
"Pure Stinking Genius, that's what that is. Hey, can someone get me a fire extinguisher?"

shizzy
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:28 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Storm Window Strategy - Help....

Post by shizzy »

triguy128 wrote:+1 on exterior storms. I installed 39 Larson Gold Series 2 track storms on my home last year. Made a hug difference in how weather tight and amazing how quiet it made it. Having 2 panes of glass seperated by a larger distance and different sizes and thickneses absorb more noise than a regular double or triple pane windows. My windows varied from $90-160 with the more expensive ones being Low-E glass and about 39"x69", white aluminum frame. We removed some 1980's bare aluminum triple track windows that weren't sealed well, size properly and some had 1/2 size glass for window AC units.

Also I highly recommend the Low-E coating. Worth the extra $20 per window and the shading appearance is minimal. I was worried abot how it might affect the appearance and did clear glass on the front of my house, but wish I had done Low-E for all of them.
+2

I just finished putting 34 of the Larson Gold Storms with the low E coating on my house. You barley notice the coating, And as far as I'm concerned, the extra $20 per window was worth it. I was able to get them in almond to match the trim on my house. They blend right in, don't look tacky.

Also, We live on a busy street and we immediately noticed how much quieter the house is.

triguy128
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:41 pm
Location: Keokuk, Iowa

Re: Storm Window Strategy - Help....

Post by triguy128 »

shizzy wrote:
triguy128 wrote: Also, We live on a busy street and we immediately noticed how much quieter the house is.
Amazing isn't it.

Just wait until it gets colder. Your window drafts will disapear and window won't fog up. You will be able to keep some humidity in the house. You may get a little frost and moisture in between upstairs windows.

We have a sunroom/sitting room upstairs that's all windows. Eight 36"x39" windows in a 20'x12' room... and the difference from last summer without storm windows to this summer was amazing.
1925 Neo-Classical

Previous home - 1968 single story Ranch/Colonial, 1200sqft - 11 windows
Current home - 1925 2 story Beaux Arts Neo-classical overlooking the Mississippi River, 3200sqft - 48 Windows

Lauren674
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:47 am

Re: Storm Window Strategy - Help....

Post by Lauren674 »

bump
Lauren
Chicago Area Bungalow
New Forum: https://www.wavyglass.org/index.php
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MrGrady
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Re: Storm Window Strategy - Help....

Post by MrGrady »

jeepnstein wrote: You're pretty smart to try a few first and see what you think. When you're ready to go all historically correct on that gorgeous place I think I have a .pdf lying about somewhere on how to make a wooden storm.
I'll take you up on the PDF! :D
The Birdsall House- Built 1868, Queen Anne renovation 1895
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mnwindowrestoration
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Storm Window Strategy - Help....

Post by mnwindowrestoration »

We use new high-quality storms to create a secure barrier while the sashes are out for restoration. Here is our typical work order:

1. Remove old storms
2. Do any necessary carpentry on sills and exterior casings.
3. Paint sills, casings, outside and edge of blind stops per this diagram:
http://mnwindowrestoration.wordpress.co ... amb-parts/
4. Install new storms.
5. Remove sashes and restore them.

Also, there are storms and there are storms. A high-quality storm made with structural extrusions, precision expanders, and plenty of weather stripping will not bow or flex and will seal tightly. One brand of window mentioned in this post is good quality, the other - not so much. (It does come in plenty of colors, though!)

In addition, when installing storms, we put a thin bead of caulk in the corner between the casing and the blind stop on three sides - that's all. This keeps the wind and water from wrapping around the backside of the storm but makes them easy to remove.

Mike
Minnesota Window Restoration
mnwindowrestoration.com

triguy128
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:41 pm
Location: Keokuk, Iowa

Re: Storm Window Strategy - Help....

Post by triguy128 »

jade mortimer wrote:my vote is for exterior storms as they keep the weather and precipitation away from the primary window...triple track aluminum storms have been around for quite a while and, aside from very cheap ones, work quite well...i'm not familiar with provia storms...hopefully there is a showroom where you can check them out...make sure you can operate all three panels--two glass and one screen--without getting your fingers squished or worse...look at the joints at the corners--how are they held together? are they mitred (cut at a 45 degree), butt joined or do they overlap? how are they held together at the joint--weld, screwed or meshed? what kind of warranty do they offer?

aluminum conducts cold and heat unlike wood which is a better insulator...the possible downside of wood storms is that they cost significantly more and must be maintained...unless you can get a 100% seal between the primary window and the storm (i would say impossible) it is best to have some airflow through the storm to reduce or eliminate condensation...breathing and showers/baths contribute warm moisture which will eventually pass through the windows...once it hits the dry cold glass of the storm, it will condense...if the storm window is allowed to let in a small amount of air, the condensation is reduced or stopped...it seems to go against conventional thinking but 'sealing' a storm window is not a best practice...make sure there are a couple of small weep holes where the storm meets the sill or allow for a 1/16" gap along the entire bottom....

sash are typically removed from the interior without issue with the storms....when the warmer weather comes in spring of 2013 (eek!), remove the storm and undertake the work properly...

.....jade

Those Provia's do look nice, but I have to imagine they are about 2X the price of the Larson's. When you have 40 windows, and both ultimately will serve the same purpose, I can't justify the extra price personally.

1/16" would be a little extreme. 1/64th is plenty IMO. Upstairs window in winter will NOT let out air form outside. on a 2 story home. You will always havve warm moist indoor air going out, except on windy days. Downstairs windows are the opposite and will only have condensation in mild rainy days or very hot humid days. I would lean towards leaving the minimum weep holes/drainage possible to minimize air leaks. Then use rope caulk to tighten up the prime windows as needed until you can get them restored.

Be careful on an old home abotu how much humidity you have indoors in winter and managing ventilation as needed. Moisture in walls and between windows is bad.
1925 Neo-Classical

Previous home - 1968 single story Ranch/Colonial, 1200sqft - 11 windows
Current home - 1925 2 story Beaux Arts Neo-classical overlooking the Mississippi River, 3200sqft - 48 Windows

rodpaine
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Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:41 am
Location: Purcellville, VA
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Re: Storm Window Strategy - Help....

Post by rodpaine »

triguy128 wrote:1/16" would be a little extreme. 1/64th is plenty IMO. Upstairs window in winter will NOT let out air form outside. on a 2 story home.
This has not been my actual experience with my wooden storm windows on my dormer windows. I have found that something between 1/8-inch and 1/16-inch is necessary to maintain clear glass, once the initial humidity in the house has gone down after the beginning of the cold weather.
FWIW,
-Rod

jade mortimer
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 8:22 am
Location: hawley massachusetts
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Re: Storm Window Strategy - Help....

Post by jade mortimer »

i'm not sure how one would measure a gap of 1/64"...we use a stiff putty knive (approximately 1/16" thick) to give us an even gap across the bottom of the storm...most aluminum storms offer an adjustment where the storm sits on the sill--this will offer compensation for an out of square opening and for ventilation.....stained glass is especially susceptable to damage by condensation and heat build-up so you will often see little louvered vent holes in their storms...storms are meant to protect the primary window and keep out strong winds and precipitation...they are not meant to be hermetically sealed as some 'modern thinking' folks suggest (not referring to you triguy)....

it's 28 degrees here in western mass and we're expecting a nor'eastern on the east coast wed/thurs....hope everyone has their storms in good working order!

...jade

triguy128
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:41 pm
Location: Keokuk, Iowa

Re: Storm Window Strategy - Help....

Post by triguy128 »

rodpaine wrote:
triguy128 wrote:1/16" would be a little extreme. 1/64th is plenty IMO. Upstairs window in winter will NOT let out air form outside. on a 2 story home.
This has not been my actual experience with my wooden storm windows on my dormer windows. I have found that something between 1/8-inch and 1/16-inch is necessary to maintain clear glass, once the initial humidity in the house has gone down after the beginning of the cold weather.
FWIW,
-Rod
Your prime window must be leaking pretty bad. I tend to believe that if you had less gap, like just a sliver in a few spots to allow condesation to drain that moisture is reduced because exfiltration is reduced. Most of my windows have the weep hole slots, plus just a couple 4-6" sections where I didn't caulk the bottom. Wit ha a leaking prime window, you'll always have some codensation on upstairs windows.

Ondensation on downstairs windows shold be almsot non existant. I don't think you need much of any slot downstairs. Actually, your mosture prpblem upstairs gets worse, if your leaving a significant gap on the downstairs windows. Reverse stack effect is a balanced. air leakage downstairs gets balanced by that upstairs and the worst place for leaks in to the attic. Air movement through loose fill and fiberglass insulaton drops it's R value dramatically.... I beelive it can cut it in 1/2 if thre's enough air and moisture movement.
1925 Neo-Classical

Previous home - 1968 single story Ranch/Colonial, 1200sqft - 11 windows
Current home - 1925 2 story Beaux Arts Neo-classical overlooking the Mississippi River, 3200sqft - 48 Windows

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