Built in 1830 ? (was Dating 18th/19th century Details)

[gregV]

caught me here writing more, nut I will hold off a bit and hear what you are saying.
At this point JEREMY, I was feeling quite strongly that this house was built circa 1820-40.
But could be way off so you know as I am not there seeing first hand. And also I tend to loose touch with architectural features post 1810.
You house to me seems quite original.

The parlor fireboxes confuse me, as I say again, I'm not so good on this period house. The bricks and mortar seem original in the pictures, but the facade around the opening looks wrong. But this may be a very 'transitional ' house. If the fireboxes were rebuilt then they were done by a mason with very good period mortaring knowledge. So why would the the bricks be laid wrong? Makes me feel more that they are all original.

I would like to believe that in fact the foundation of the center chimney had been altered at some time, but the framing shows to me that it's original.

Check those parlor cupboard for originality. That's important.

The parlor firebox surround in looks to be original to the house, in the green parlor. This also makes me feel that the fireboxes are original because of that return bead being scribed still so well to the brick. ???

Do look for indications that there was a cast iron stove where the keeping room firebox would have been. Are the stains in the basement subfloor possible from spillage when that stove was used?

The cast door in the ell cooking area could be period to this house if in fact the hose is what I think it is in age.
What indicates to you that the wood work around that area is in fact new. What makes this "obvious"?

Seems so many things are pointing to this house being 1820-40 that it's hard to say otherwise.

[gregV]

When you go int the ell attic, go explore where it t connects to the roof of the main house. Looks like you have insulation there?? This is an IMPORTANT place to find a clue as you will be looking to see if the roofers are original on the main house. You will find out a few things if they are. One, they still have the original roof shingles, two, the shingles are gone but traces of broken nails and dark rusty nail holes will tell you the were once there. Three, old roofer are there and no traces of shingles, or four, no roofers at all in which case you have more clue finding to do.
Take your camera!
Greg

[gregV]

This looks very "right" to me. Everything i this picture looks original



Time to go nto the attic of main house and some shots of the stack where it goes through the roof, and the surounding framing.

[jharkin]

Greg,

(I'll forgive you for calling me Chris since I called you Jeff by accident the other day )

I'll take some more measurements and detail photos tonight. A couple more thoughts:

The chimney was rebuilt down to the first floor hearths. I was told this for a fact by the previous owners as they had the work done in the past 15 years. I'll take a photo, you can clearly make out the difference in brick from the hearth extension to the firebox, it also has full contemporary clay tile liners and modern dampers in both hearths.

the attic... I wont be able to look at where the main chimney goes through the roof since its all finished. The attic photo I posted is the attic above the ell, which is acessable from a 3/4 height door on the second floor. I will take a photo in there, but as you enter you can see where they cut a hole through the original roof sheathing between 2 rafters to gain access.


-Jeremy

[jharkin]

Greg-
Great feedback! Too bad you are not in my neighborhood to look first hand...

I don't know if it helps but some outside shots so you can see the roof pitch and chimney locations. The pitch of the roof is shallower than some other capes around here and the second floor is quite cramped - the overhead clearance to the ceiling, which Id guess is hung from collar braces, is only about 6.5ft.

The main chimney is slightly in front of the ridge.




(I know, the casement windows in the back Another bad renovation to undo someday..... )

-Jeremy

[Sombreuil_Mongrel]

If this were a northern VA house, I'd have to place it around 1805 - 10 years either way- based on the moldings. The backband on the doors is the latest-appearing molding, and here 1830 is about right for it. Earlier backbands the same size were more complex. An 1810 backband would be a thumbnail profile. Yours is a Greek revival molding that was used up through the 1850's in my area. But, it could theoretically have been added later to spruce up the earlier house. The mantel looks right for 1810. The linear moldings of the pilaster are also a Greek revival touch, but the other sticks are small and fussy, so lean heavily earlier Federal. Now, any "house joiner" would have had a mix of older and newer molding planes in his toolbox, so the mix is puzzling, but you have to go with the latest one to pin it down.
The planking is vertically machine-sawn boards. The spacing of the saw marks is uniform, and they are absolutely perpendicular; not a hand pit-saw. Your local historical society may be able to tell you when vertical saws came into use in the area.
Just a few rambling thoughts.
Casey

[gregV]

Great stuff Casey.
Water saw mills were being used around here at least in the near mid to later 1700s. We had quite a few here in Hampton all down the Little River. Mine most likely came from just about 1/4 mike down the road.

[gregV]

Jeremy, such a petty house! I think you have a gem there!
I have to tell you, whomever did that center chimney masonry did a great job. Your very lucky about that. Really, if you didn't tell me that the entire stack had been rebuilt I would have said that it was original, BUT that is just from pictures. I'll re-state this. Jeremy, I just now realized you had a link to a page about your house. I tend to miss things like this. I do now see that the stack is obviously new from a pic in that thread. I see the Parlor hearth repair, but was thinking that might be all that was done.
It make sense that you say the fireboxes were rebuilt only in two areas. One is the amount of brick exposed on the fascia and two, the way the opening surround bricks were laid. So I certainly can see it both ways.

Casey felt a bit towards 1810 and that is the exact feeling I had until that center chummy issue became apparent. he lack of an original cooking fireplace hss me very baffled as to dating he house. Are there ANY signs of fire damage in the house? In the attic of the main house?

[gregV]

As far as the casement windows go in the ell, I see NO issue with this. I have one over my kitchen sink also. Much of my ell is not "pure". We do need those modern places to live. I do have a big screen TV! Haa.
The ell looks as if was was sheaded out at some point? Maybe you stated that. Looks like that original ell is close to the middle of the house rather then flushe to one side or the other.
Center chimney placement looks perfect on the main house. Was rarely ever dead center on any house.

[jharkin]

Greg, Casey - thanks again for the feedback. I should have done this 2 years ago when I bought the place.

I appreciate the comments about the federal and some Greek revival touches in the trim . Makes me feel better about my first thoughts on buying the place and our choices to go more federal on the colors. The previous couple owners had bee trying for a colonial feel and had an almost oxblood red color on that mantle that just looked wrong.

We did get lucky on the chimney. They had the work done by a masonry restoration outfit that has done many other homes in town (most of the town center is 1790-1890 vintage, 3 or 4 capes, a lot of colonials and columned Greek revivals and a few Mansard Victorians). I should probably call them up and ask if they remember the Job.

One of these days we are going to go to the registry of deeds and see what we can find. the PO's said they did and only found records back to the late 1800s, and supposedly the town historical society has no info, but it cant hurt to try again. We have found a few old maps they show the house - the one below is 1875 and shows the outline of the addition, we also found an older map from 1830 something? that also shows the house so we can guess its at least that old.

I should have clarified but yes you are right Greg - the addition was actually more of a shed than an ell - it was centered on the back of the house. Sometime in the latter 20th century they built off to the road side making the modern dining room. in the attic I can see where they framed that new roof on top of the original, making the roof asymmetrical.

I'll get more detail photos this weekend.