French Drain/ Tightline Around Rubble Foundation?

[Detroiter]

Hi everyone. Great forum, really informative.

I have an 1868/70 house that was completely abandoned a couple of years before I bought it. I'd say it was also badly maintained for about 30 years before that. I'm putting it back together bit by bit. This summer has been moisture control at the foundation.

In the basement -- probably a crawlspace converted to basement when contemporary ("modern") heat and plumbing were installed -- I've repointed the rubble walls with lime mortar, filling voids and replacing broken/ missing stones etc. On the outside, I dug down about two to three feet around the house and removed impacted soil/ roots from the mortar joints and repointed the exterior walls. (Deeper than about three feet, it's hardpacked clay. Based on test holes, it hasn't compromised the mortar.)

All around the house, I removed about a foot of soil that had accumulated against the brickwork, returned the elevation to just below the top of the rubble stone foundation, and graded it away from the house. (That was a lot of work.) The basement is much, much drier.

However, the house doesn't have gutters, never did, and I can see where rain coming off the drip edge is compacting the soil and, I assume, is sending water toward the foundation. The situation is worst at the roof corners, and I do notice that the basement gets wet at those spots. I do not want to install gutters because it will ruin the cornice moldings on the house and I can't imagine getting up 30+ feet every year to clean them out.

It has been recommended that I install a french drain/ tightline along the drip edge of the house and attempt to channel the water away from the drip edge and into the open yard. Has anyone done this? Is it advisable? Has it worked? What did you do?

Thanks.

[SkipW]

Our house has a similar issue, although it was put on a block foundation in 1969 or 70.

I dug down (not as far as you) and put pond liner in a 2foot by 1 foot deep channel, added a bit of crushed bluestone, then a 4" perforated drain pipe, and topped with crushed stone.

While this is probably not the 'true and professional' way a contractor might have done it, I now have an almost bone dry cellar in the areas where I gave this treatment. It also cost me a fraction of what a pro would have charged.

I am a firm believer in the fact that water will take the path of least resistance, so I give it a path where I want it to go.

The stone rim around the trouble spots where the roof drains a lot keeps dirt or mud splash from happening, the crushed stone will not compact, and I have a torrent of rainwater rushing out of the drains AWAY from the house during storms.

Our house is unique in that it was built right next to a large granite ledge which literally sends water right down to the house. In the back, when I built the deck, I built similar drains under the deck in the worst area of all: betweeen the house and the kitchen ell at the bottom of the ledge. This system, I drilled through the foundation and send the water through drain pipes to a drain in the cellar to daylight.

Mind you, my cellar is a rough 10x12 area with heat & water equipment in which you can stand up, the rest is dirt crawl space.

Between these two setups, I easily shed thousands of gallons of water AWAY from the house in a downpour.

I hope this info help in some way.

[Renaissance Restorations]

Here's an example of a French Drain system I installed at a client in CT, along with other repairs:

http://www.renaissancerestorations.com/ ... hayden.htm


JoeF

[Detroiter]

Thanks to both of you. Amazing that houses with foundations in such poor shape stay standing.

I was planning something more like SkipW's. Along the drip edge, about two feet deep, a foot wide, perforated pipe, crushed stone. I hadn't thought about putting up against the foundation like that, so I'll have to consider it while I plan things out.

In a way, I might combine the two. I was thinking of bringing the gravel up to surface level along the drip edge to avoid soil compaction along that area. (And then bury the pipe as it runs out into the yard.)

Either way, it seems desirable. Good to know that people have had good luck with similar set-ups.

Some previous owner tried to remedy the problem by stacking very large rocks under the drip edge. I didn't discover that under I started re-grading the yard. Most of the rocks had been driven underground by the force of the water and ground settling. Seems it's been a long-standing concern for this house.

[SkipW]

I did not install the perf pipe tight to the foundation like in RR's pics. The perf pipe is basically laid directly under the drip line and the perf pipe is also basically centered in the dug collection trough. One thing that helps my system, I believe is that it is lined with heavy pond liner, which acts as a water collection/removal device as much as the drainage pipe probably.

Also, the area I dug was one foot deep and two feet wide, oppposite of your statement. All I wanted was enough depth to bury the pipe and have a good amount of crushed bluestone from foundation out past the drip line.

[oldhouseluvr]

What a timely post! We have the same problem with water coming into the basement at the front corners of the house. We have been here for 14 years, and although the POs claimed the basement was dry, it is not. DH and I haven't done much to alleviate the problem since its very sporadic, but I have had enough of the water problems with this house. The exterior perimeter drain looks like a possible solution for us. We were thinking we would have to one installed in the basement. Before I spend that kind of money, I would much rather try the exterior fix first.

And I don't blame you for not wanting gutters; they are a problem in themselves. If we don't clean them twice a year, they clog and the water pours down right at the foundation.

Renaissance Restorations - what kind of firm would I contact to get estimates for the french drain work? Can you refer me to anyone in southeastern PA?

[Detroiter]

Thanks for the clarification, SkipW. I think I'll go deeper and narrower. I had planned to use geotex, and I wonder if the clay will act similarly to the pool liner being less permeable than the soil and crushed stone. Decisions, decisions.

[angolito]

I'd say that if you were going to all the trouble to dig you should install the geotex. The clay hasn't been working in your favor this far......

Our basement has been dry as a bone. This summer I noticed that there was some dampness. We are digging this week to take a look, but I suspect that the backfill job on the new sewer line has failed. ( not to mention that my old gutters are completely clapped out)

[Detroiter]

I'll definitely install the geotex, but I don't know that I'll go as far as a pool liner. If I use the clay as the bottom of the trench and line it with gravel, I wonder if I'll get a similar effect.

I'm also thinking that I'll dig out a wide, gravel-filled area at the terminus to disperse the water. Someone suggested then piping the end to an above-ground pop-up will also help disperse water, but that might be overkill.

[angolito]

Detroiter, I forgot to say WELCOME to the OHW!

Can we see photos of your home? we are all voyeurs here LOL.

I see you are (i assume) in detroit. God Bless You for helping to save a piece of the motor city's beautiful homes!!!