Annunciator restoration

[MichelleZ]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum. We are restoring a 1929 Phillip Schutze-designed house in Atlanta. It has an Edwards & Company No. 408 annunciator system in it that we would like to get working again. Can anyone advise on an expert who works on these systems and/or where to get restoration parts for it?

Thanks,
Michelle

[Neighmond]

A few questions about it:

What do you need for it?
Is it mains driven or has it a battery; if it is mains-driven do you know where the transformer and rectifier is in the house that step the voltage down and rectify it to D.C.?
Is it a self-resetting indicator panel or manual?
When was the last time the system was powered up?
Any pictures?

Lots of those parts are generic in nature, and will be adaptable across systems. Systems, even those by the same makers, were usually very basic and the installer was expected to finish them according to the needs of the installation, so operating current, signaling apparatus, call device location and type, and power supply apparatus could widely vary.

[Texas_Ranger]

It might not even need a rectifier - I've taken apart a 1929 system which ran on AC with a very chunky transformer on a thick slab of some bakelite-like material. There were two indicator panels (10+5 indicators, 15 total) so I assume there were 15 call buttons in the entire house. Almost all of the buttons were gone though, I only found one.

[MichelleZ]

@Neighmond
thanks for the reply. here is what I know so far.

What do you need for it?
We restore historic houses as historic house museums, so we make them as accurate as possible (paint analysis, restoration glass, etc), so restoring the annunciator system is part of that.

Is it mains driven or has it a battery; if it is mains-driven do you know where the transformer and rectifier is in the house that step the voltage down and rectify it to D.C.?
It appears to be main driven as no battery has been located. I don't know if the electricians have located the rectifier yet. I will check.

Is it a self-resetting indicator panel or manual?
Not certain -- how would the panels look?

When was the last time the system was powered up?
Who knows! We acquired the house in 2010 from a group that had allowed it to deteriorate, so right now we're engaged in getting a decent (historically accurate) roof on and repairing the plasters from the internal gutter system.

Any pictures?
I can get some.

[Texas_Ranger]

Is it a self-resetting indicator panel or manual?

Not certain -- how would the panels look?

I think manual reset panels have some kind of knob or rod sticking out of one side. Pulling on it resets all indicators. Never seen a self-resetting panel though.

[Neighmond]

A manual reset panel has a mechanical system (knob or handle) to drop the flags or pointers to the at-rest position, and an automatic system has a provision to reset the indicators from wherever they were triggered.

Pictures would be the best help. I have a ton of old telephone, servant call system and hospital communications parts, but sometimes there has to be some work to adapt them or fit them. I have a coil winder, and I can wind some coils if I have to.

Chaz

[Texas_Ranger]

Out of curiosity... do you know how the call buttons in simple manual reset systems were wired? Common hot to all buttons and individual wires from each button to the corresponding terminal on the panel?

And even more interesting, how was the bell wired? In series with the panel and the transformer? This is the only way I can think of how to make the bell ring when any button is pressed without triggering all flags at once (which would happen if the bell were installed parallel with the panel coils).

I've got a late 19th century wooden panel with 5 or 6 flags (bought on eBay, came out of an old place in Berlin, Germany) and the aforementioned 1929 setup complete with bell, panels and transformer. I didn't have the slightest chance to check out the wiring though as the house was already under construction and the workers kept telling me to take my stuff as quickly as possible and get out of their way.

In the flat where I live there must have been an annunciator system at one point, but it must have been a lot more complex than the average system, maybe even with a central panel for all flats. We found a thick bundle of cut bell wires exiting the flat next to where the electricity came in. I do know that there were two call button connection in each room, one below the light switch and one at the centre ceiling light. Most of the wires were still there when we worked on the wiring, but most of the connections had been cut in the junction boxes where they got in the way of someone working on the mains wiring.

The most recent home annunciator system I've ever seen was built in 1960. It didn't have flags any more but lights instead. The place where I found this is a bit hard to grasp. Imagine a prefabricated concrete house (a style of construction largely associated with municipial housing and even Eastern Block ideology in Europe) with parquet tile (those evil 4x4 squares made of 5 narrow strips) in the rooms and rolled rubber flooring everywhere else (hall, kitchen, bathroom) and then an annunciator system! I can only assume back then synthetic materials and concrete were all the rage, as were clear, simple lines and what we'd call plain architecture today, but from today's point of view the house looks just drab and cheap.

[Neighmond]

Example one:

An hour ago I looked at an eight flag manual reset panel, made by Peerless, unmarked as to voltage but set up for direct current. It is undated, but is wired with varnished copper and cotton clad copper, and the case is straight-sawn white oak. I would guess it to be 1890-1900.

There is a bus bar to which the (-) terminals of the flags are attached, the bus bar is attached to the (+) lead of the gong, and the (-) lead of the gong goes to the (-) lead of the cell.

The (+) lead of the cell attaches to a bus bar, which has eight thumb screws (one for each call button. The buttons are all missing, but I assume that they would then hook to the thumbscrews on the (+) side of each solenoid. When the circuit is complete, it would charge that particular solenoid, and the bell, being in series past the common bus bar, would ring.

The hand-operated reset would tip the flags back to the up position.



Example two:

Earlier today I scrounged out a Partial panel, unmarked and obviously missing parts. Instead of old-style solenoids, the panel has individual relays with an oscillating "actuator." The actuators, one for each number, have a ratchet wheel of 12 on the arbor, and an indexing pawl to keep it going one way. There is a disc sharing the arbor with each ratchet wheel with alternating low and high points, and a long-leggety "feeler" attached to a set of button contacts riding the high and low portions. When the feeler is on a high portion the switch closes and energizes a separate relay, which presumably administered a signal. Activate the relay again and the ratchet wheel will step ahead one tooth and the feeler will drop into a low portion and stop the signal. It also has three relays on slate bases. The relays are marked 12v ac, so I am guessing this thing had a transformer but no rectifier.

Of the extra relays, two are normally open, single pole, one is double pole, double throw. One of these is the signal relay. One is marked "call for heat" The double-throw is unmarked, but has a small transformer whose primary leads are in series from the normally open contact of the secondary. I almost wonder if this drove a speaker someplace for an intercom.

Aside from this too much is gone off of this panel to tell any more of consequence about it.

[Texas_Ranger]

Fascinating! All my panels have classic solenoids. One day I'll have to check the resistance of the solenoids on the old panel to determine/guesstimate the operating voltage. I wonder how those things were operated in areas with DC mains - rather common in many older European cities. Our house certainly had DC when it was built (presumably 25 amps 220/440V 3 wire DC for a total of 8 apartments!).