Introduction, questions about roof replacement

[csnyder]

My wife and I will be moving from our solid-but-common 1948 GI Bill house into a 1916 house with a lot of character (and very solid as well). I've put up a picture set of the new house:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36458189@N03/sets/72157629921456383/

From my limited architectural knowledge, the house has an Arts & Crafts feel to me, bordering on Prairie style in some ways. It has a lot of windows (54!), built-ins (including an original Murphy bed), and is fairly non-ornate. It's in excellent condition, having been in the original family until the daughter of the original owners died in 1987. It was given minimal attention for about a decade after that, while the family that has had it for the last 15 years has taken good care of it (I was pleased to hear the previous owner use the word "remuddled").

We're planning to do a fair amount of work before we move in, with the largest project being a roof replacement (the roof is on its last legs). I'm wondering if anyone here would be willing to share opinions on the following:

1. Any suggestions for roof color? We're going with CertainTeed Landmark asphalt architectural shingles. The previous owners had some of the roof replaced - the screen porch, bay window, and garage - and it's a green shingle color; my wife and I, however, aren't a big fan of it (if it was darker, it might be better). We're considering a medium gray color, such as CertainTeed's "Colonial Slate".

2. We're also deciding how we want to vent the roof. Currently, the roof is effectively unvented - there are a few pots near the peaks (not visible from the photos), but no soffit venting. We had an environmental audit of the house (which came out surprisingly good), and they said we could either go unvented with closed-cell foam (~$10,000) or vented, which would include taking out the old insulation, air-sealing the second floor ceiling and wall top plates with a thin layer of spray foam and adding enough cellulose to get up to R-49 (~$6,000). They recommended the vented approach because we wouldn't stand much to gain by going unvented, as the space isn't usable (there's just an access hatch in a closet).

My only concern with the vented approach is in figuring out how to properly vent the attic. The environmental people recommended a hip ridge vent made by Air Vent, as well as a product called "The Edge", also by Air Vent, if we don't want to cut into the soffits.

We're located in Grand Rapids, MI, so snow is a big concern (other than this past "winter") with the roof venting. I'd appreciate any opinions or experiences you have. Thanks!

[triguy128]

I'd either leave the roof unvented. Or even better, consider spray foaming under hte roof deck with closed cell and make hte attic semi-conditioned. You'll need ot remove however any other existing insulation in the attic so you can spray right up to the rim joists.

"but aren't my shingles going to overheat, curl and fall off". No, that's a myth. Venting only cools the roof deck by abotu 5F at most. There just isn't enough air flwo or heat transfer throguh plywood decking to do that much. You mainly jsut trying to 1" reduce condensation and 2) just reducing hte ambient air temp.

If shingles don't fall off of houses in Arizona, they won't anywhere else.

Lets see, the attic was sealed up for the last 96 years. I assume it originally had asphault shingles with asbestos making them almsot indestructible. Those probably lasts 80 years without overheating. Then it had modern shingles put on which have probably lasted a normal 20 years.


For color. I'd go with a neutral grey as your're looking at.

[cadrad]

Neat House! I love the knotty pine room in the basement! My only concern about grey is that if you play up the arts and crafts feel on the outside, then grey might limit you to cool tone colors, which is the oppisite of most "craftsman" color schemes, which tend towards autumnal earth tones. On the other hand, grey might look like weathered wood shingles, which were an viable roofing option at the time the house was built (more likely composite shingles, but hey!)

[circuspeanut]

Great house! I wish you happy settling in.

I agree with Cadrad -- the green roof will look stunning with any color but white, while a gray roof (unless it's a very taupey or greenish gray) will be quite hard to work with if you want to play up the arts & crafts / craftsman styling of the house. The white siding does you no favors, unless you want to go for neo-colonial. The dark green/white color combo you currently have makes it look very 1940's, nice but perhaps not your preferred aethetic direction?

Take a look at Robert Schweitzer's book Bungalow Colors for some excellent period color scheme ideas! (I believe Schweitzer is actually based in MI, so he may even be available for you in person if you really want to splurge).

[csnyder]

I'd either leave the roof unvented. Or even better, consider spray foaming under hte roof deck with closed cell and make hte attic semi-conditioned. You'll need ot remove however any other existing insulation in the attic so you can spray right up to the rim joists.

That's one of the options we're considering, and I am leaning that direction rather than trying to figure out venting. It would make things less complicated. My main reason for hesitating to go ahead with the spray foam is that one of the primary benefits — the additional conditioned space — would be of no value in this case, as the attic does not have easy access. We also have no HVAC ducts up there to worry about.

I love the knotty pine room in the basement!

An interesting find in that room: One of the wall panels is removable, giving access to the basement wall behind. The finished wall is ~18 inches from the basement wall, so there's enough room to move around. I'm not sure when that room was finished (judging from the light fixtures and fireplace, it was a while ago), but I wonder if the "secret" area was used as a place to store alcohol during prohibition. Given the built-in bar in that room, that would match the room's function.

Take a look at Robert Schweitzer's book Bungalow Colors for some excellent period color scheme ideas! (I believe Schweitzer is actually based in MI, so he may even be available for you in person if you really want to splurge).

That looks like a good reference — I just placed an order to have it sent to my library. I was aware of Schweitzer's consulting service (he is in Michigan, though on the other side of the state [Ann Arbor]) and have checked out his site, but I didn't know about the book.

On the other hand, grey might look like weathered wood shingles, which were an viable roofing option at the time the house was built (more likely composite shingles, but hey!)

From what I've seen, I think the house had wood shingles initially; I think they're still up there, underneath the asphalt. The sheathing has gaps between the boards (informally called "skip sheathing, apparently). We're getting the whole thing torn off, so I'll know more once that process starts.

I agree with Cadrad -- the green roof will look stunning with any color but white, while a gray roof (unless it's a very taupey or greenish gray) will be quite hard to work with if you want to play up the arts & crafts / craftsman styling of the house. The white siding does you no favors, unless you want to go for neo-colonial. The dark green/white color combo you currently have makes it look very 1940's, nice but perhaps not your preferred aethetic direction?

That's interesting; my main reason for gray is that I would consider it to allow more flexibility for house colors — at least compared to green. I can imagine that it wouldn't work well with warmer colors. My wife and I are not attached to the current white and green color scheme — the main reason to keep it would be if it is accurate historically. I see no evidence that the house was ever another color, but I don't have any historical photos to go by (hoping to find some). Hopefully Schweitzer's book will give us some ideas.

Any guess as to the vintage of the awnings? They look 1970's to my uninformed eye. I'm not planning to remove them yet (they probably help a lot with temperature in the summer), but they look hideous.

Thanks for your responses!

[shazapple]

I disagree with insulation to the underside of the deck without ventilation; heat is not the only thing you have to worry about. You have to deal with moisture as well, because no construction is perfect. Properly built brick and wood walls have ventilation cavities built in, and even vinyl siding is loose enough to allow airflow. Why should roofs be any different? New shingles also act as a vapour barrier, so if you don't have ventilation you are effectively creating a double vapour barrier situation. I can go into this more, but needless to say it is part of the building code for a reason.

I've had the a similar product to the airvent installed on a hipped roof older building and have not had any problems with snow or ice buildup. As long as you have a good ratio of vent area to ceiling area (1:300) and have it properly balanced (50% at the exhaust and 50% at the intake) you should have no problems with it.

[csnyder]

How about something like CertainTeed's "Weathered Wood"? Example photos

Or would that be too light and/or gray?

Thanks for the advice on the venting. I should have known better than to expect a clear-cut answer to this controversial topic. I appreciate all of your thoughts.

[PowerMuffin]

I like the weathered wood. It should go well with a variety of colors and it looks very organic, natural. I am excited to see your house once painted and with the new roof.
Diane

[Don M]

Congratulations on your wonderful new old house! I noticed immediately that it still has all the original wood storms & hopefully screens as well! We are big on those very cool. I love your Murphy bed; that's something you see in old Laurel & Hardy films! It looks like the POs did a good job with updating your kitchen while retaining the back stairway! I also like your basement knotty pine den & fireplace---I wouldn't be surprised if the cavity wasn't for storing liquor!

[csnyder]

We've decided to go with the "Weathered Wood" shingle. Our goal is to pick something that goes well with the current color scheme (the house was painted within the last 5 years, so we'll be retaining the current colors for a few years at least) while giving us flexibility for choosing a future color scheme.

I think there's an excellent chance that the den was finished expressly for use during prohibition. I'm quite certain that it was not finished when the house was built — for instance, the wiring is metal-sheathed, as opposed to the K&T throughout the rest of the house. There is one electrical outlet in the room, and it's a non-polarized two-prong style; that places the date at 1948 at the very latest, when polarization was first required. Also, I see no other reason why they would want to finish part of the basement — they only had one daughter (and a live-in maid, for a while), so they didn't need additional living space (there are four bedrooms upstairs). The living room would have been a much better place to relax and entertain. Also, the room used to be closed off by a door (which the PO's removed, but kept in storage) with its own lock in addition to the lock built-in to the mortise.

The house does have the original wooden storms and screens. I haven't counted, but I think that we have all 54 of them (the storms are still up, and there are a few stacks of screens in the basement). We're definitely planning to retain all of the original windows; perhaps by the time I die (I'm 28), I'll have finished restoring them all. We had an energy audit done, and they were surprised at how tight the house is. We are considering replacing the ancient (though not original) boiler with a Veissmann high-efficiency unit, which will also provide hot water.

We plan to take full advantage of the back staircase — we have a 16-month-old, so we're looking forward to being able to sneak up to our bedroom (originally the maid's quarters) without having to tiptoe past the nursery. One interesting discovery about the maid's quarters: the radiator in the maid's room has thinner tubes than the other 18 radiators in the house. Either they didn't want the maid to be too comfortable during her leisure time, or she had to rely on the gas fireplace (removed at an unknown date, before 1997) in the room for supplemental heat.