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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:38 pm
by catya
hmmm. Guess I have a related problem. I am using Alex caulk to seal gaps and things on my old porch and painting over with Perma white Exterior (zinzer product). It doesn't feel terribly sticky to the touch, where the paint goes over the caulk, but dust and dirt definitely are attracted and so it looks dingier and dirtier within a few days. Does seem like something is seeping out.

BTW, what is the best product to use to fill in gaps in the paint-- like between joints that have pulled away slightly, that sort of thing. I've been using the Alex bc carpenter suggested it, but I wonder if something else might be better. where would I find polyurethane caulk?

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:01 pm
by johno
Ok, called Sherwin Williams for 2nd time and compained more. They are actually sending a Field Rep out to my house tomrrow afternoon. Thanx GLHA for all of the advice. I'll look around for the receipts tonight and will not surrender the paint can!

Maybe I should pick up a tube of alex caulk and try that and see if it is compatible with the SW paint.

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:40 pm
by johno
Ok, after drying for 24 hrs, both the SW Super Paint Satin and the old can of Ben Moore latex paint are NOT sticky when applied over any of the caulks, including the DAP Dynaflex 230 and all of the SW caulks. They feel a tad bit rubbery, but are not sticky. The Zinsser 123 latex primer is not sticky and not even the least bit rubbery over any of the caulks. So then, why is the SW gloss latex Super Paint so sticky? Does it have something to do with gloss vs satin finish? Does gloss have more plastics or something in it?

Now I have an idea how to fix all the sticky paint from last year - prime with Zinsser to seal it and then re-paint. At least I don't have to remove all the caulk. But going forward, I still don't know what caulk to use unless I just plan on priming all caulk with Zinsser before top coating.

It should be interresting to see what the SW rep says about all of this tomorrow.

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:52 pm
by Raisinette
Zinsser's da bomb anyway, i'n't it?

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:09 pm
by johno
The SW field rep was here and he is stumped. He will make some calls tomorrow to the home office and try to figure out what is happening. He didn't take any samples of the paint, just wrote down the batch number from the can.

sticky paint and caulk solution

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:54 am
by johno
The SW guy got back to me late Friday and told me it was "working as designed." He said that it is supposed to stay sticky and this just shows that the caulk is "working" and staying flexible. BOGUS! This sounds like a lame excuse to me.

Meanwhile, I was talking to a friend whose father is a contractor and he suggested I try Phenoseal caulk or some non-acrylic based caulk. DAP bought out Phenoseal so I called DAP and they actually recommend DAP Sidewinder caulk over Phenoseal because Sidewinder is more flexible. Bought a tube of Phenoseal and Sidewinder over the weekend, caulked on Saturday, then painted SW latex on Sunday and it is NOT sticky. So, the solution is to use a vinyl based product, like Phenoseal or Sidewinder. It must be some sort of acrylic or latex incompatibility with all those other caulks. You would think SW would know this and would have been able to recommend something. FYI - DAP also makes "Weatherflex" which is the exact same stuff as Sidewinder, but sold exclusively through Lowes.

I'm happy to finally have this resolved and be able to continue on with the project.

Caulk Recommendations

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:35 am
by Patrick
First caulk should never be used to "cure" poor woodwork/craftmanship. That being said, they have their uses.

I'm a fan of polyurethanes..for that reason I choose either PL Siding and Widows or Sikaflex 1a. Both are extremely tacky and neither are water soluable. What makes PL and Sikaflex a PITA to use is what also makes them great--they stick, they remain flexible, and they won't peal off.

Alex and othe water soluable caulks make life easier for painters, but over the years, they will de-laminate and become a problem.

Alghough more expensive (about $5.00 a tube), PL and Sikaflex will provide more protection over a longer period. Period.

Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:44 pm
by ChrisF
Just to throw two more cents into this discussion:

I've used Dynaflex 230 caulk for a number of years now with SW trim paint, and have NEVER had a problem with it. Apply the caulk, wait a week or so for it to cure, prime it with SW latex primer, than topcoat with SW SuperPaint semi-gloss. Never had a problem with it.

So, the problem is either something in the SW gloss paint, or the fact that (at least from what you wrote), it sounds like you're not priming the caulk at all.

And as for SW's reply that it's "working as designed", I'm not surprised to hear a BS explaination like that from them. As good as their paint is, they lie through their teeth when it comes to dealing with problems. When I discovered that their A100 alkyd primer would not dry on some cypress storm windows I built, they tried to tell me that cypress doesn't hold paint. Yeah, that's why it's been used to side houses for 200 years, and every description of cypress I could find on the web says that it holds paint just fine. Their excuse pissed me off so much that I used Muralo paint to paint the body of my house & garage, just out of spite. Great paint, that Muralo. :D

Latex Caulk Compatability problem

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:24 am
by GLHA-Contractor
How much caulk were you using for your filler? You should never use more than enough to fill a 3/8" gap or less. Anything larger and we always use expanding foam and shave to form after full cure. We joke that when people use ten tubes of caulk to fill a crack, it's drying time will exceed the life of pressure treated wood. I'm not saying thats what you are doing. I am saying that I never did ask you how big of a gap you were sealing and how much you were applying. Those are factors. And yes your SW rep is jerking you around. He is playing his product against the 'normal cure process of caulk and giving you a bunch of bogus rocket science to stake his position. Make him get it in writing from the SW lab and then if and when he does, after, ask him why they came to those conclusions without any field samples. That will be the Gotchya! If he would have taken samples of the paint with the caulk together to study they reactivity and chemistry interaction, I wouldn't be so hard on the rep, but I have been doing this too long to not know the tricks and what is a normal followup and what is a blowoff. I would then make them replace the product. Let me know how you do. Sorry I haven't been watching this forum that close lately. Change of season is in full swing here and we are working dawn to dusk days to get things done for freezing temps. Thanks

Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:40 pm
by catya
hmmm expanding foam, now there's an idea. been trying to figure out what to use as a backer for caulking large gaps around my windows (between wood of the windows and window trim and the concrete block exterior walls) Someone told me about some kind of rods or strips for that purpose, does anyone know about that? Is the foam adhesion more or less permanent? Seems like that would help prevent air leaking in during winter too. I just wouldnt want to have to remove it for any reason

re: my porch.... nope not talking about curing "bad workmanship," I'm talking about house shifts over 100 years which open up some joints --yeah you can get them back together to some extent, but in some situations-- ain't gonna happen, the house has settled and the wood has bent and warped and twisted around to accomodate the shifts. So the question is how to best fill in those cracks and crevices for appearance and for watertightness. Also where porch has moved away from the house in some spots.