Hi Dustin,
I see your problem. You are right, without soffit & ridge vents the baffles won't do much; the idea is that with the vents & baffels air circulation is created to keep the roof cool in the summer & cold in the winter. I would call some commercial foam companies and see what they recommend. If I were going to do as you plan but use fiberglass insulation I would still use the baffles (required by code in MA) install fiberglass bats then staple poly sheeting over the bats, strap the ceiling & install sheetrock. That doesn't solve the air circulation issue but it's better than nothing. Closed cell foam may still be the best alternative. Don
Stone house wall insulation
Moderators: oldhouse, TinaB, Don M, Schag
Crickhollow, I would recommend against spray foam insulation directly against your cedar shingles. How will you replace the roof when it inevitably fails? Even though that may be 30 years from now, that's a mess I ouldn't want to have to deal with.
At the present time our attic is exactly like Don's with the exception that we have only 2 windows, not 4. We have a tin roof over very old wood shinlges (maybe original) with no soffit or ridge vents.
We do have the added benefit of being able to see some daylight where the roof meets the stone walls of the house.
When we finish this space, the plan is to put collar ties across the roof joists about1 foot from the peak so that when the space is finished it will have cathedral like ceilings, but they will not terminate at the peak of the roof, rather they will terminate with a flat area about 1 foot below the roof peak. Insulation will be 6 inch batts of fiberglass insulation over baffles that extend down to the eaves. Then, at one of the gable ends of the house I will install a vent with a fan. The fan will be be actuated by a thermostat or humidistat or both. This fan will work automatically to evacuate the air from the space between the insulation and the roof deck/undersides of the wood shingles.
This will allow that little triangular space just under the roof peak that runs the entire length of the attic to act as a conduit for ventilation of the roof.
It will also be a convenient place to run any overhead wiring that is necessary.
All I have to do now is figure out a noice way to conceal the vent for the fan. I was thinking of making a fake date stone out of wood, cutting the letters and numbers all the way through it so that the fan could vent through them. Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated though. I really don't want to be looking at a fan louvre at the peak of my house.
Anyway, that's how I will solve the problems of ventilation in my own house. Good luck with your project!
HB
At the present time our attic is exactly like Don's with the exception that we have only 2 windows, not 4. We have a tin roof over very old wood shinlges (maybe original) with no soffit or ridge vents.
We do have the added benefit of being able to see some daylight where the roof meets the stone walls of the house.
When we finish this space, the plan is to put collar ties across the roof joists about1 foot from the peak so that when the space is finished it will have cathedral like ceilings, but they will not terminate at the peak of the roof, rather they will terminate with a flat area about 1 foot below the roof peak. Insulation will be 6 inch batts of fiberglass insulation over baffles that extend down to the eaves. Then, at one of the gable ends of the house I will install a vent with a fan. The fan will be be actuated by a thermostat or humidistat or both. This fan will work automatically to evacuate the air from the space between the insulation and the roof deck/undersides of the wood shingles.
This will allow that little triangular space just under the roof peak that runs the entire length of the attic to act as a conduit for ventilation of the roof.
It will also be a convenient place to run any overhead wiring that is necessary.
All I have to do now is figure out a noice way to conceal the vent for the fan. I was thinking of making a fake date stone out of wood, cutting the letters and numbers all the way through it so that the fan could vent through them. Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated though. I really don't want to be looking at a fan louvre at the peak of my house.
Anyway, that's how I will solve the problems of ventilation in my own house. Good luck with your project!
HB
-
crickhollow
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:50 pm
- Location: Western Maryland
- Contact:
Many thanks for the info
Thanks very much for the generous replies regarding my attic insulation problem. I was a bit inaccurate in my earlier description as I do actually have a layer of tar paper under the wood shingles. My plan forward is to bring a spray foam fellow in to evaluate the attic. From what I've been reading from you folks and other sources, that seems to be the best route to retard heat loss (and cooling loss in the warm MD summers) while also protecting against condensation from compromising the wood shingles.
I'm sure to be seeking your fine help on future projects.
Cheers, -Dustin
FYI, our website is below for anyone interested in following our progress.
I'm sure to be seeking your fine help on future projects.
Cheers, -Dustin
FYI, our website is below for anyone interested in following our progress.
circa-1790's Stone Farmhouse
http://mysite.verizon.net/crickhollow/s ... _small.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/crickhollow/s ... _small.jpg
Here's Dustin's homepage: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzep4163//index.html
They have done some amazing work on their farm since they bought it! I'm delighted to see they saved their corn crib; we have a very similar one that we use for our garage---no corn! Don
They have done some amazing work on their farm since they bought it! I'm delighted to see they saved their corn crib; we have a very similar one that we use for our garage---no corn! Don
1840 Limestone Farmhouse
Thanks Dan P and HB,
It took me a while to get back to read your suggestions, but I appreciate them.
I have looked into doing the pointing myself and if I get brave I might still do it. I had a great stone mason come look at it and he pretty much told me how to do it and I went to a job he was doing and observed a bit. Unfortunately, however, the POs did pack the cement in quite carefully--probably more reason to fix it--and it is VERY difficult to chisel out.
I cannot look at the inside of the walls as the sections that are cement are outside finished spaces. Our limestone is probably very similar to yours Dan, it's grays and a little light tan in this area, but the color changes just about a mile from here to a prettier brown mix.
Thanks again.
It took me a while to get back to read your suggestions, but I appreciate them.
I have looked into doing the pointing myself and if I get brave I might still do it. I had a great stone mason come look at it and he pretty much told me how to do it and I went to a job he was doing and observed a bit. Unfortunately, however, the POs did pack the cement in quite carefully--probably more reason to fix it--and it is VERY difficult to chisel out.
I cannot look at the inside of the walls as the sections that are cement are outside finished spaces. Our limestone is probably very similar to yours Dan, it's grays and a little light tan in this area, but the color changes just about a mile from here to a prettier brown mix.
Thanks again.
1790 german stone farmhouse
Stone House insulation
I too have a Maryland stone home build in 1865. The original house was 2 story and approx. 2500 square feet, a third story was added in the early 1900"s as well as a 4000 sq ft addition.
I am currently facing heating bills that would make you cry. I just happen to be getting estimates for some insulation upgrades. Can't do the walls as the plaster is against the stone. Should I go with foam insulation in the craw spaces underneath the house? We do have a full basement that houses the heating plant under some of the living areas but about 35% of the living areas are located over the craw areas. One craw area under the kitchen is totally unaccessable and can not accomodate any insulation unless I tear up most of the flooring. One contractor gave me a quote on a foam type insulation to be sprayed between the joists in each craw space but recommended leaving the basement ceiling uninsulated since the heat from the furnace will rise. The other contractor suggested batt insulation. The difference in cost is a couple grand higher for the foam but am willing to make the investment if I will recover some of the cost. Both contractors recommended a fill type insulation in both attic floors but recommended not insulating the attic ceilings unless we were converting it to living space.
I appreciate the insight to the mortar issue as I have had contractors repoint the some of the mortar ( hate heights) only to find I am still getting moisture build up in some areas of the internal walls. My assumption is they have been using a concrete mix instead of limestone which is trapping the moisture.
We love the house and we are trying to keep it as original as possible, which leads to the next question about windows. Has anyone tried the indoor storm windows advertised in TOH magazine? Are they worth the investment? I will never consider new windows as the original windows are all float glass and look like the belong with the house. I guess my next big project will be to remove and rebuild the windows. any thoughts on this as well?
I am currently facing heating bills that would make you cry. I just happen to be getting estimates for some insulation upgrades. Can't do the walls as the plaster is against the stone. Should I go with foam insulation in the craw spaces underneath the house? We do have a full basement that houses the heating plant under some of the living areas but about 35% of the living areas are located over the craw areas. One craw area under the kitchen is totally unaccessable and can not accomodate any insulation unless I tear up most of the flooring. One contractor gave me a quote on a foam type insulation to be sprayed between the joists in each craw space but recommended leaving the basement ceiling uninsulated since the heat from the furnace will rise. The other contractor suggested batt insulation. The difference in cost is a couple grand higher for the foam but am willing to make the investment if I will recover some of the cost. Both contractors recommended a fill type insulation in both attic floors but recommended not insulating the attic ceilings unless we were converting it to living space.
I appreciate the insight to the mortar issue as I have had contractors repoint the some of the mortar ( hate heights) only to find I am still getting moisture build up in some areas of the internal walls. My assumption is they have been using a concrete mix instead of limestone which is trapping the moisture.
We love the house and we are trying to keep it as original as possible, which leads to the next question about windows. Has anyone tried the indoor storm windows advertised in TOH magazine? Are they worth the investment? I will never consider new windows as the original windows are all float glass and look like the belong with the house. I guess my next big project will be to remove and rebuild the windows. any thoughts on this as well?
Hi,
My stone house is an 1840 vintage & has similar issues although we don't have the major addition you have! My basement ceilings have foam board insulation between the joists. My boiler is a new state of the art system and is so well insulated it doesn't add much heat to the basement. I agree with your contractor; insulate the attic floor not the roof. My house is solid lathe & plaster so not much heat escapes through the ceilings & the floor insulation blocks most of the rest. I have triple tracks painted to match the trim so they kind of disappear. I have had inside storms in a previous house & they worked pretty well. I commend you for not considering replacement windows; I have all original windows in my house & they are quite efficient considering their age! The replacement window salesmen are sort of like the old patent medicine vendors; they claim replacement windows will solve your heating bill problems but that's not where the majority of heat loss occurs in most cases. Don
My stone house is an 1840 vintage & has similar issues although we don't have the major addition you have! My basement ceilings have foam board insulation between the joists. My boiler is a new state of the art system and is so well insulated it doesn't add much heat to the basement. I agree with your contractor; insulate the attic floor not the roof. My house is solid lathe & plaster so not much heat escapes through the ceilings & the floor insulation blocks most of the rest. I have triple tracks painted to match the trim so they kind of disappear. I have had inside storms in a previous house & they worked pretty well. I commend you for not considering replacement windows; I have all original windows in my house & they are quite efficient considering their age! The replacement window salesmen are sort of like the old patent medicine vendors; they claim replacement windows will solve your heating bill problems but that's not where the majority of heat loss occurs in most cases. Don
1840 Limestone Farmhouse